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Ep 2 comedy tips with Cory Michealis

Updated: Aug 13, 2023

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Produced By White Hot

Welcome Cory Michaelis

Carole Freeman: hey everyone, welcome to the get good podcast. We've got Cory Michaelis here with us today, and I'm just going to read his bio right off his website. So hopefully it's a up to date and not anything.

He doesn't want me to say about him. So after teaching high school for 12 years, Cory Michaelis retired to do comedy full time because he wanted to try out both of the lowest paying jobs in America. Now, in his 12th year as a comedian, he, well, he's not that old. He says there was some overlap. Cory has a dry bar comedy special called Bad Teacher with over 60 million views.

I'm sure at this point, it's even higher than that. His debut. Album, that's easy for me to say the debut album, the college dropout was released by 800 pound gorilla records and charted at number two on iTunes and billboard because it was only the album because it was the only album released that week.

Cory is, was a finalist in the Seattle comedy competition, which

Cory Michaelis: that's planning.

Carole Freeman: No, he's been on Netflix. He's traveled across the world

Cory Michaelis: on Netflix for 30 seconds.

Carole Freeman: Oh, okay. All right. Well, I want to give people reasons why I'm talking with you and about all the different experience you have that people would want to know that you have some things to share.

So, all right. Welcome everyone. We've got live viewers. You can be part of the show as well. So give us a comment. Let, let me know where you're joining us from. So.

Cory, are you up in the Seattle area currently?

Cory Michaelis: Ish. Yeah, ish. I'm gonna live in Everett. Sorry to brag, but where I grew up,

Carole Freeman: that's really funny 'cause I grew up in Oregon and then I moved to the Seattle area, had family that lived in Everett.

And I remember telling people in Oregon that I moved up to Seattle and they're like, oh, where? And I said, Everett, and they're like, that's not Seattle.

Cory Michaelis: That is Seattle baby. That's not.

Carole Freeman: So I've lived there. I know where it is. That's funny. And I've learned, so I live in Phoenix now, and I've learned that people don't even know where the Pacific Northwest is down here.

They're just like, where, where's that in the world? And so Seattle, that's you. So some of them, some of them. Yeah, that's true. So Hey Cory, well take us back to the beginning.

Do you remember where your first open mic was?

Cory Michaelis: Well, yes, but it was my first time doing comedy. First time, first open mic was giggles.

First time doing comedy was a comedy class. So I took a comedy class. We performed in at the Comedy Underground. The old, old location in Pioneer Square.

Carole Freeman: Rest in peace, Comedy Underground.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah, it's all gone now, but this was the it's now a flat stick pub. I think one of those golf,

that's where I did the first show I've ever done and thought I did well, it was a class. So like the audience was everybody that we invited. So it was not like it was the easiest show ever. And then first open mic was a Sunday night at giggles. It was like five people in the audience and I brought like three more, four more.

I might have brought more than that actually, because I remember the comedians being like, oh man, you gotta get down to the open mic tonight, there's actually people here. And there's like some new dude who sucks, he brought some people, so they like, more people showed up to the open mic. And then I also remember the host went up and was, was I was setting my camera and when I opened my camera to set it up, like a light went on or whatever, and I wasn't thinking much of it.

And then the comedian got off stage, the host got off stage and he came back and he was like, Who lit me early? Why did you guys light me early? What was that all about? And I was like, yeah, it's crazy, man. I don't even, and I don't even know what the light was really. I kind of did, but like, so it was totally me on accident and I didn't buy accident, but I didn't say shit.

I was just like, Oh, I don't, I don't know.

Carole Freeman: So 12, 12 years ago, then you had like a camcorder, right? Like, is that what kind of camera you had to film on? Or

Cory Michaelis: yeah, what was I using? I don't even know. Yeah, it's a little. I mean, that's still what I use, is just the one that opens up into the thing, but Yeah, I had a I don't remember, small little camera, I was just trying to, I don't know what my plan was, I just remember having the video from the, the class.

And it being so good that I was like showing it to everybody on DVD, like watch this on a DVD.

Carole Freeman: Oh my gosh. You're pretty proud of yourself then. So do you, who was your, so

you've come full circle then because you went through a comedy course And you teach that as well now.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. You know, I'm One day, you too, 14 years after you start, can teach a comedy class. You really try hard, guys. We started like 6 years ago, I think, in Tacoma at the club. We did it in person. I drove down to Tacoma 2 hours every Monday night for 4 weeks. And then we do a show at the end and we did a bunch of those.

We did like three a year, four a year until that global pandemic. I don't know if you heard about it, but there's a global pandemic. I don't know that it got down to Arizona, but it was over the rest of the world. And so it actually had, then we did it virtually and I was like, Oh, it's just as good virtually.

As long as people can, you know, get online and stuff and know what they're doing a little bit with the, and pretty, you know, pretty much everybody now has a decent idea of how to like do a zoom or something. So so now I'll do it. Yeah, I do it occasionally, virtually. And it's just for brand new people, like to get them to try at one time, bucket list people.

It's not for. I mean, I guess open micers could do it or whatever and might learn something, but it's not for people who've been doing comedy for a while. It's for people that are brand new. Even people who are doing comedy a while could probably learn something. And it's not for me. It's just resources I've picked up over the years.

And then create a curriculum and and then they do, I mean, it's actually today we have it in two hours. I got a little zoom with everybody and they're going to do their material and I'm going to give them feedback. Yeah, but I'm a better teacher than I am a comedian. So I said, I decided to keep going.

Carole Freeman: I took your class actually during the pandemic. Oh, that's right. You know what's up. I was still up in the, yeah, I was still up in the Seattle area and everything shut down. And I thought, you know what, I've never actually taken one of these official classes. So. Now's a good time. And I worked on one of my bits and I, I did pick up a lot of, a lot of tips and things like that.

So it was great. It was great. Highly recommend. There you go.

Do you have a name for your course that you teach?

Cory Michaelis: Sure. It's like four of them. We just call it virtual comedy class and then we're like online comedy class and we're like virtual comedy college, whatever. It's just, I always do it through the Bark Entertainment Comedy Club.

So Tacoma, Spokane, Louisville right now.

Carole Freeman: Nice. Nice. Well, cool.

Cory Michaelis: Well, I did it in Everett. Yeah, I did it in Everett. And I was like, that worked out pretty well. But when we did the show, we would do the show at the parlor, but parlor is no more.

Carole Freeman: Rest in peace. All these, all these Seattle clubs that are no more are no more

Cory Michaelis: two for two.

That's three for three actually. Cause they had two clubs for a minute there.

Carole Freeman: Oh, that's right. That's right. I actually, when I was moving from Seattle, I had one of their. The hurricane glasses that you could buy with their specialty drinks.

Cory Michaelis: That's why they didn't make it.

Carole Freeman: They were trying to be Las Vegas or something.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah.

Carole Freeman: So a lot of people watching maybe in the very beginning stages of their comedy career. And do you, do you remember the progression of going from that? Like I killed it at the open mic towards, you know, starting to get some guest spots and. Feature and then headliner.

Can you take us through the different stages of your career?

I think of it as like a comedy ladder maybe more of a spiral, but just kind of those different steps along the way.

Cory Michaelis: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I yeah, it's weird to start with a class, like I said, because then you, you do a show and it's everybody who you guys invited and it's all your first time. And so it's like the best show you're going to do for like 10 years.

Because it's like packed and they're all excited. And so you don't, and then you do the same thing. Like I did basically the same set at that open mic at giggles and it relatively bombed, like it was not as good or even close to as good. So I I did some, I did, you know, decent amount of open mics early on.

And I'll, I mean, I'll still do open mics, but like, I never really got into the Seattle scene because I lived in Everett, I lived in a suburb. And had a day job that had me up at 6 30 a. m. every day. So I just was like, I was married and stuff. I was like, I'm not, this isn't my career. So I'm not gonna, I'll just do it occasionally.

And then I, what I just started doing was just like asking for spots that seemed to match like the level that I was at in my mind. And I, you know, I don't know if they. I remember early on saying something like, I'm not going to do any comedy that doesn't pay. And I think there was like five comics around me who probably hated me.

And I didn't, I just meant like, well, I'm not going to leave my house to drive 45 minutes, do five minutes. For free doesn't make sense to me and now it makes a lot more sense to me that there's So much value in that but the time I was like, oh, why are you guys doing this? This doesn't make sense and on one hand that was that was shitty And then on the other hand that was like it's a good way to approach You know, we should be a little bit more like that with our time, you know, and make sure we're picking and choosing what shows we do a little bit better maybe.

And so just doing anything and everything, especially if you're gonna start producing comedy. Anyway, first few years I just did like hosting at this club that was in Everett that was like short lived. And then some hosting at laughs on weekends and mics occasionally. And I was a hobbyist. I wasn't trying to do it for career.

So it was just like putzing around and I had the summers off, so I got to do summers. If I want to go out on the road or something and do gigs that other people didn't want to do, or couldn't do like triple run stuff and had fun with those. I like, I enjoyed those as a good time. And then so my, my progression is going to be, you know, different than everybody else's, but that's also like, so is everybody else's.

It's going to be different. So I think that it's important to just like, get good.

Carole Freeman: Like, so

what's the Tribble run for people that haven't heard of that?

Cory Michaelis: So David Tribble was a producer of shows for years and years and years and by the time I was doing comedy, Tribble runs were you know, a lot of like new comics.

stretching themselves to do 25 30 minutes in a lot of ways, and headliners who were strong, but maybe not super well known. And so he would hire us to do three, two, three, four nights in a row usually in the Pacific Northwest somewhere, and extending into Montana and down into Idaho and stuff, which are...

You know, arguably Pacific Northwest, whatever, Nevada, Northern California, a little bit, I think he had some of the gigs and they would just be casinos or bars or venues that were one off comedy shows that he would, that were usually once a month and drive typically because just the way they paid.

You, you couldn't afford to really fly and rent a car or anything like that. So you ended up driving pretty significant distances to get to the first gig and then also in between gigs and a run of show, you know, a run. We still kind of use that, you know, that's words kind of used to see if you can create a run out of something.

So if you get a gig, you, you sometimes try and make. Surround it with other stuff that's near enough that you can boost it, especially at certain levels of comedy, you know, certain levels of comedy. But then even when people go on tour who are famous, they try to obviously route the thing. So it makes sense, but Turbo Runs didn't necessarily make sense.

It'd be like you do a show in Billings and the next night you had to be in like Boise and that's like nine hours away from each other, so it's crazy. And then the next night you're in like you're in like Coeur d'Alene or Spokane or whatever and that's like seven hours away. So it's just like a lot of driving, a lot of...

A lot of wear and tear for just a, you know, half hour if you're the opener, half hour in front of an audience that may or may not want to enjoy, enjoy the comedy.

Carole Freeman: There's something to be said though, when you do a run of shows, that how much quicker you can progress and just really kind of dial things in versus, you know, five minutes spot here, five minutes spot there.

Cory Michaelis: I've personally, you got to do 30 minutes, you know, if you're opening, you got to do 30 minutes and it's like, you know, yeah, you are, you're stretching yourself and so there's different. People have different thoughts on whether or not you should do stuff you're not ready for. But that's kind of gone away.

And now we're in a world where people are doing all sorts of stuff they're not ready for. They get famous online first, you know? So I think I don't know. I don't mind it. Yeah. Say yes and figure it out. And then sometimes you don't figure it out. And then the market tells you, you don't get to do that anymore.

So was that along those lines?

Carole Freeman:

Do you think it's harder now to progress as a comecian compared to 12 or 15 years ago?

Cory Michaelis: Well, you got to create your own way more than you used to. Like we used, I think it used to be that there was like a hierarchy at the club and you could assume that like, if you were loyal and you kept going to that club and that you would move up eventually within the club.

Or the actual venue, but venues closed, global pandemic venues closed, we were talking about it. Virtually, people are getting famous and popular and they're jumping up much faster and some people are toiling away for years and years and years. I saw a comedian recently right on Facebook who I've known for years and done it for years and it's very funny.

They're like, you know, did my first headlining set. And I was like, Oh, I assumed you'd done a bunch of those, but I think they're just like, well, it's just what I think I do on the side. So no big deal. And yes, you just it's. It's easier to become popular. I don't know if it's easier to get better.

You have to be focused to get better at it.

Carole Freeman: Yeah, it wasn't that long ago that the path was to, you know, pick your home club and just basically camp out, live there, spend all of your time there. And that was the way you could progress. And that kind of just doesn't exist as much anymore.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. I don't know if it does or not.

I, I, but I do know that there are things that would make it harder for sure. So I assume it's. I assume it's less likely to do that just a lot of, especially, a lot of headliners are bringing their openers with them. And so you used to be able to make a career out of feature comedy also. So you could be a feature act and have a full career and be that middle act in a show.

And maybe headline here or there, I don't know, but you could have a full career out of that, but now if you're a touring or traveling middle act or feature act, you can't really have a career unless you're opening for a super rich or super famous and rich person who's negotiating figures.

Carole Freeman: Patrick.

Thanks. Thanks for watching. Patrick says that you're, it's easier to become popular. It's not easier to become better is a great quote. So there you go.

Cory Michaelis: Okay. Is that what I say? The show get? Sure. . . Yeah, that sounds, I mean, I just, that was off, that was whatever off the top of my head, but yeah, I think it's It may or may, I mean, it's just as easy to become good I think, or better, people just aren't choosing, you know, they don't choose it, they choose popular over, over getting good at comedy.

I mean even when I started, you know, I had the approach that people have now, a little bit of like, well I'm just gonna move faster than, I'm not gonna be held, like I'm not gonna adhere to some sort of like rules about how fast you can move. Comedy. Like that seems silly. It just, some people could get better faster than others.

And I probably got better faster earlier than some people because I just insisted on it, like, I just was like, well, I'm just gonna, I took the class twice. So that was two five minute sets that I put together to make 10. Then now you're 10 minutes. You can host I wasn't, like I said, I wasn't planning on doing it as a career.

So. It wasn't like this thing that I needed to be focused on. I don't know, like the art of it or like, I better follow the rules or I better make good, I wasn't even trying to make great connections necessarily, I don't think. I don't know. And I wasn't, I had no plan. There was no plan. Cause I wasn't trying to be, I only became a plan when I quit my day job teaching high school and then it was like, okay, now I have to sort of focus on how I'm going to pursue this as.

It's a real thing before that. I was just like, Oh, I just don't want to do a lot of these things. So, and then I would also drive four hours to do weird gigs all over the place. So I did all sorts of different weird shit. So we have, I, we have different, I don't know, we're streaming on Facebook. They let you say shit.

I don't know. Anyway. So yeah, I think you, I mean, you probably better. Just as fast now, but people aren't there. They're choosing to get more popular.

Carole Freeman: And it sounds like you never,

Would you say you never saw this as a full time career, but you kind of got hooked into it?

Cory Michaelis: sort of doing more, you know?

So when you're married to somebody and you live in your hometown and you teach high school at the high school where you went to high school and she had a business and she was growing. You can't quit your like full time super safe super secure job that provides health insurance for everybody Never even considered it and then but once we decided not be together anymore.

I was like, okay Well now I can consider it and see if it works for me And and then teaching, you get allowed, you get a year off, like a sabbatical, not sabbatical, sabbaticals they usually pay you, I think. Anyway, leave of absence and then you can come back to your job. So, I didn't like, fall on, quit my, quit my job and life that I used to live.

It kind of slowly and safely moved out of, full time teaching to full time comedy and, and but like you figure it out. I don't know, like it's a kind of, I don't know, I think it's a thing of like, hey, do you have a half hour? You want a feature for this comic or whatever? Then you have 20 minutes and maybe that's a bad idea to say yes, but also...

You give yourself a deadline to do a thing and sometimes you make it happen. So I don't know what the right answer is, but I usually went with, like my dry bar, I wasn't ready to do 40 minutes clean for dry bar when I got asked. But I saw the value in getting asked and I had a feeling it might not happen.

Might I get asked again a year from now, it might go away. I might change, it might change. It might become something that, you know, and so I just was like, yeah, I'll make it happen. And then by stalling during my set a little bit and writing new material in preparation for it and recognizing that some material that I didn't think was going to be okay for it because it was going to be too dirty.

It was actually fine if I reworded it you know, I made it work and it was the best thing so far that I've done for, for me career wise. I wish it wasn't still the best thing, but it's still the best.

Carole Freeman: So you said 40 minutes. I thought they were, did they used to be 40 or did they record 40 minutes and cut it down to 20?

Dry bar comedy origins

Cory Michaelis: I thought they were 20. Yeah, they're 20, 25 or something like that. 15, 20, 20. Yeah, so they used to do two comics on one show, live. One show, live, two comics, film them both, same audience, and and released, I, they released like 36 minutes or something of mine, and they clipped them up, which is, they were like kind of first, they were like kind of the first ones out there doing clips.

And they were doing Facebook four by three captioned and the whole thing. And they did a great job and it worked. And now everybody's doing them nine by 16 on reels and Facebook and YouTube and some people in Snapchat, I guess. Maybe that's not a, that's not really a thing anymore, but it was for a minute.

One guy got famous on that or partially from that. And yeah, so they figured it out that like, if they want to be squeaky clean, they're going to run out of comics pretty quickly. And so in their third or fourth season or whatever it is, I don't know how they, if they still call them seasons or not, but they they switched to three comics doing like 20 minutes each.


Carole Freeman: Do you have,

do you have any tips for people that have a goal to get a dry bar special?

Cory Michaelis: Oh, no. Yeah. Don't make that one of your goals. No. No, I don't. You get more work if you can be clean, but I wasn't, I'm not a clean comic. So I just, I just figured out 40 minutes that I had that would work.

I guess I stalled a little bit, added some bits. That were silly and for the moment and, and, and just for that only, I would, I don't do them or wouldn't do them ever again. They were just, yeah, dumb. And but yeah, I mean, so many people now are filming their own specials and putting them on YouTube. And some of them aren't that special, probably, I guess.

I don't know, but they're just, andrew says, Andrew Rivers is my buddy, and he jokes that like the internet is the audition, or you know, real life is the audition for the internet, like it used to be, you know, sort of the other way around, I guess, a little bit, like you'd try to be on the internet, and, hey, here's my clip, can I do your live show?

And now everybody's out there doing live shows. Who cares about this audience of 80 people, that's not going to get me anything. I'm going to film this and put it online for an audience of millions and millions and millions, hopefully. So I don't know if that's good or bad, but like I said, it allows people to progress in terms of popularity much faster than it used to.

It's allowed me, I mean, you know, the level I'm at, I don't think I could have a career if it weren't for like the internet. So, or, or anything that's close to a career, if it weren't for the internet, it's just wouldn't be possible. And so now because of the internet, I can produce a show once a month. It's in a theater and that does well.

And I can, if I don't book a weekend, I can just self produce or take the weekend off. And it didn't used to be that way as much, much, you know, you had to be pretty famous to go ahead and say, Hey, I'm going to self produce or run my own tour or do my own thing. You relied on the comedy clubs, the venues, the producers, the promoters.

For them to like, accept you and book you, and now you just book yourself. So Now, some kind of, you know, I don't know if it reduces the quality of the comedy, I'm sure in some ways it kind of does, but We're also much more strict about what comedy we allow to be out there. Or allow to be popular, like, you know, we police people who are doing stuff that we don't like.

In the comedy world. And so that makes comedy better, but right now it's hard to police crowd work. So everybody's doing it and then they're releasing it. And so, and at their core, everybody kind of hates it, but and then there's actual crowd comedians who are amazing and really, really actually good at it and in bag has got like, I don't know, he got like second on last comic standing and he's a pro who's been doing it forever and ever, and he does primarily crowd work as an act.

And he's phenomenal at it. But then like some people are getting crazy famous with just goofy, like, what do you do for work shit?

Carole Freeman: So,

do you get people coming into your course saying, "when do we get to learn about crowd work?"?

Do we get to start with crowd work? Do you have to kind of rein that in a little bit?

Cory Michaelis: Not like that, not, not excited about it, but I'm sure that they're, they might be curious, but we just. talk about writing material and performing it. That's all. There's no crowd work talk. They want to talk about, everyone wants to talk about hecklers. What about a heckler? And you're like, it doesn't happen very often.

You're fine. Don't worry about it. But the audience, but the general public, I know has more of a sense that crowd work or roasting that that's comedy, but that's standup. So that's not great for live shows. In general, but I haven't noticed it really affecting me at all, you know. The only way I noticed it is like, if you do any crowd work and it does well, then they're like, yeah, that's what we want.

Do that. And then you do actual material and they're like, hmm. Do the other thing, where you make fun of people.

Carole Freeman: So

have you found with all of the crowd work clips on the internet, that audiences are expecting more of it?

or they're wanting more of that?

Cory Michaelis: I don't know that I don't do it really much. So I don't know. They don't, I'm guessing. Yes. So I just know based on things people say here and there that, you know, audiences, you can tell that or the way they react when you, when you do it or when you see someone else do it. You can just kind of tell that people want to be a little bit more involved in the show than they used to.

Hmm. And that's probably not great. We did it to ourselves.

Carole Freeman: Who was a comic? I'm trying to remember who it is that did like a whole a hundred percent crowd work tour, but that was 10 years ago or so. It was before crowd work was kind of the. The cool hip thing now.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's it. Yeah. But he's a super like cerebral, clever comic, you know?

And so I don't, I didn't watch it. I don't think, but yeah, he was, it was like, Hey, I'm doing this weird thing and now it wouldn't be that weird. You know, I think multiple comedians have crowd work specials. And again, it's just to be like. Content, content, content, content. Just throw as much shit at the wall as possible and see what sticks.

And that's a little bit more of a, and then I, you know, I should probably do more of that. Like I should probably more, put more stuff out than I do, but I, you know, I have a video that was show that. I don't have a video yet, but I'm supposed to have a video soon of a show from like months ago. Month and a half ago, maybe.

And I haven't, you know, some people are putting stuff out from the, at 3am from the show they did four hours earlier and I'm like, wow, good for them. But I just get anxious about like, ah, is this good enough? I should make it better. I should wait till that joke is done. I shouldn't put it out twice.

That's a, come on. That's dumb. But the sound wasn't very good on that. Probably won't do it. Put it out, but. Then there's some people who are just like, everything, put it all out. And those folks for the most part do fine. Nobody cares. So I need a little more of that. Probably.

Carole Freeman: It can feel like a content hamster wheel at times where you're like, got to keep up and spending more time.

Cory Michaelis: And then I'm doing it. I don't really have anybody, you know, I should, I should probably, I paid somebody once for a month and a half or two. She did it all and it was great. And She's busy and there's other people who can do it. And so I ended up just doing it myself. And then I'm like, it seems like a waste of time, you know, not a waste of time, but it seems like not how I want to be spending my time.

So yeah, it's tough. Hey, whoever that is.

Carole Freeman: Hey, Crickette's here. Okay. Party starts now. Thanks for tuning in Crickette, Phoenix area comic. So is Patrick, by the way, too.

Cory Michaelis: Oh, I know Patrick. That's great. Yeah.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Well, Crickette, Hey, you got any questions for Cory? I know you're just joining here.

So you've done some overseas gigs. How do those come about?

Is that something that you would recommend putting on your comedy career goal list for people and tips for traveling overseas for gigs?

Cory Michaelis: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I just love that comedy allows some travel, so it's a, you know, if you like to travel, then sure, yeah. I, both of those were born out of dry bar, I think.

People see me on that. Which makes you realize, like, okay, well, see, if you become popular with videos, people want to book you, you know? One was, so Dubai was a gal who was a comic who saw it and was like, I'm going to connect you to this booker in Dubai and she'd love, I bet she'd love to have you and. You know, you're like, all right, sure.

Whatever Dubai. Great. And then, yeah, the lady reached out and then was like, Hey, I'm interested in having you come do our tour. And I was like, Oh, okay. Well, what, how does it work? What a deal. And she told me, and I was like, Oh, that's, that's a decent, that's a decent deal. Sure. I, you know, is that, is this real?

And I like and then I did it and then she, we had a good time. She enjoyed it. So we, so I did it a second time and then Pakistan also, I think was from that. So he, he, she's somebody who runs, her name's Gayle, and she runs, it's called the Laughter Factory in Dubai. She's run it for years, 25 plus years, I think.

And every month a new group of comics from, and she used to do mostly like comics from Europe or Britain, Great Britain to be. Specific, I think, but then, like, the restriction, there was just like, lots of changes on how, and you ran out of comics, I guess, probably, so, she just wanted more American comics, and she had some friends that I've, of mine, do it, and So I was like, sure, I'll do it.

It was great. It was amazing. Shows are unique, different. And I don't know that I ever really got used to them or killed ever, but now I like go, ah, I'm better now. I think I can do it now better than I did it before. But then I thought that last time, and I was better last time, the first time, but you know, I don't know.

Carole Freeman:

Are they shows for the troops over there or are they shows for just local audiences in those countries?

Cory Michaelis: Those are all locals, those shows, yeah. No, no, never done anything for I mean, I guess USO is an organization that does a lot of tours for comics. USO tours and people have performed. On, on bases for American soldiers but I've never done anything like that except for in America, I have done one thing that was down in Texas for some on a naval base naval, whatever, it doesn't matter.

And then these are for locals. Yeah, so these are producers locally who want to put on comedy for their local, their local people, their town. And so it's Karachi, Pakistan, which is like 25 million people. And in that city. And so, and it's a Muslim majority country and Muslim majority city. And so, you know, you just got to find some folks who are okay with irreverence because it wasn't like clean shows in Pakistan.

So we could essentially talk about anything, but, but religion, because they were like, you're not going to have much success. Talking about religion. So yeah, he just he's a guy who his family is from Karachi He grew up in Karachi. He lives in he lives elsewhere now and was doing a show for years I think in the Philippines.

Where's that show? Tom I had I'm gonna have a tough time but he did a show for years and years in his new home city in Asia somewhere and He was like, hey, I should bring it back to my home and see if it can work. And I think it was working. I don't know if it was working at a break even level or if it was working at a making a lot of money level or what.

But then COVID kind of ruined it. Because it's hard to fly multiple comedians out, pay for their hotels, pay for their food, pay them to do the shows. And still, you know, sell enough tickets to make it work. He found a, I think the way it was working most of it was they were doing a lot of sponsorships, they had a lot of sponsorships.

So, that was how they were able to make it work. But he still does the show oh, Singapore I think. Yeah, yeah, I think it's Singapore. And then Laughter Factory is still going strong as far as I can tell online and stuff. And she's great, that's Dubai. And that's all for locals, but most of the locals are expats.

They're not like... Okay. Emirati people some, more and more Emiratis are going to the shows. She said it used to be like 90% expats and then 80% and it's less than that now. But cause yeah, in Dubai, there's people from Australia and South Africa and great Britain living there and working there and they go to the shows.

And so you're doing shows in Dubai for a bunch of white people, usually from. For around the world,

Carole Freeman: Patrick's got another quote here. Popularity can come from a viral clip, but being a good, consistent comedian can bring consistent success. Thanks Patrick for the I'll hire him as the the stenographer for the show here.

So cricket's got a question for you here.

How many minutes of jokes does one need to start getting booked on the road?

Cory Michaelis: In my opinion, well, time, you know, oh, minutes. There you go. Yeah, I mean, 30. When you're newish though, first five, six years, you I don't know, maybe not that long. People go, how much time you have?

And you say an amount, you usually have like two thirds that time, really, you know at best. And so that's fine. It depends on the road work you're talking, you know, you're talking about, like it's tough reaching out to a club and saying, Hey, I used to email clubs all the time being like, Hey, I'd love to come feature at your club.

And I wouldn't get a lot of responses, but I would get enough responses to get booked decent amount, but that's just not really how the clubs do it anymore. They book, unless you're trying to work a town that doesn't have a strong scene. If the city has a strong scene, you're not getting booked to feature at that club.

Helium in Portland, I had almost zero luck getting booked as a feature ever. And they liked me and knew me. It wasn't like I was cold. I mean, it was cold emailing a little bit, I think, but like I'd been through, I'd met the general manager. I knew people like they were fine when they were cool with me.

It's just, there's just. Not enough spots, 52 weeks a year on the weekend.

Carole Freeman: And is it also you book somebody local, you don't have to pay for a hotel for them and they'll work for a little bit less money. Is that part of it too?

Cory Michaelis: Let alone pay for it. Cause they wouldn't, a lot of clubs can't afford to pay for a hotel for sure.

But they like, don't have to worry about it. You know, you, you're going to show up if you're local.

One guy, yeah, one guy, this is 10 years ago now, 8 years ago now maybe. The Joke Joint was a club in Houston and they had one in Minneapolis, I think. And somehow I got their email or, or phone connection, got a response. And I was like, this never happens, I never get a response. And I was looking to do a guest spot in Houston.

And he thought I meant Minneapolis for whatever reason and he said, nah I don't, you know, whatever. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to be in Houston. He goes, oh, okay, yeah, we can put you up on this show, Friday night late show at this time or whatever. Guest spot. And then I said, hey, I'd love to come feature at either of the clubs anytime, you know, whatever.

And he was like, I don't know why I would book you in Minneapolis. I mean, even if you're amazing, like... Plenty of Minneapolis comedians who are strong. Minneapolis is a five hour drive from, you know, Wisconsin and Chicago. And I don't know, I'm throwing numbers out that I'm just making up, but there's just no, you know, bookie in the winter and then your flight gets canceled and.

Now we're fucked, you know? So that was before everybody was bringing stuff. And that was a club that wasn't like a book in celebrities, per se. They were booking strong comics, but not celebrities. And so, that was eight years ago. So now, even more so, it's like, There's plenty of locals in Phoenix. There's plenty of locals.

I mean, there's not many cities where there aren't enough locals to fill the time. That have clubs. That can pay you well enough to convince you to travel. A good example is like loony bins, loony bins. You can maybe go work them. Unfortunately, their, their owner passed recently. And so it's, it's, it's changed the way they do business.

They closed one of the clubs, I think. And then the other clubs are independently owned, I think. But I see, I don't know. I haven't kept, it's hard to keep up. But they were an example of a good club in small cities, so like Little Rock, Arkansas, or Tulsa, Oklahoma, or Wichita, Kansas, where they are, they had Oklahoma City too, don't really have big enough scenes to fill 52 weeks a year with feature acts.

So that was a club where we could all get some feature work up here in the Pacific Northwest and fly down. But then you got to fly down and there's no direct flight. And then they put you up though because they owned, the way they did it was they were smart. They, they bought houses or condos for the comics to stay in and then they would have you to do two weeks in a row.

So you would do Tulsa and Wichita back to back. Sometimes three, all three. Or if you were like crazy, you could just do all four and because they were close enough. And then you could kind of, okay, as a feature, okay, 30, 100 bucks a show. And then they would do Wednesday through Saturday and sometimes Thursday through Sunday.

So there was like Enough shows, enough money, a place to stay, okay, we can do it. But yeah, I don't know, like, you gotta have 30 minutes, but there's just not a lot of, like, what's the road to, you know? Is it clubs that are good clubs in big cities? It's not gonna happen. Is it... Oh, I just want to go to a city with a bunch of comedy and do 10 minute spots all over that city and lose a bunch of money?

Okay, well then 10 minutes is all you need, you know. You can go to Austin, spend a week and a half there and do probably 10 shows. If you, you know, kind of connect the right people and find them and find the show, whatever. But you're not going to make any money. Some of the shows won't pay at all. And yeah, you got to put yourself up and you got to get around somehow. So

Carole Freeman: I think Cory, I'm, I'm so glad you're saying all this cause it's such a good reality check. And some of this is stuff I've never even thought of, or just, just, and I think sometimes early on comics have the fantasy that like, They're just going to stay in their local scene and have a full career.

But just what you said about like there's 52 weeks in a year and a club is not going to book the same comic multiple times a year, typically. And so I really appreciate you sharing all this because it's, it's a lot of things to think about. And it's part of what makes this career, this pursuit so challenging and difficult as all the things you're sharing about.

So Crickette says

would you say getting booked is more about networking then, making the right connections?

What do you think of comedy in the metaverse? Those are two very different questions.

Cory Michaelis: Sure. The first question. Yeah. It's on your first seven years. The most, the show, most of the shows you're going to do in your first seven years are booked by other comments.

They booked the show. They're your, your people. They put you up. They put you on their shows with them. They know you, they know your act. They know you're going to show up. They like you. They want to hang with you. That's why when people go like, so I advise every new comic to learn how to produce comic.

That's what I would advise you. Get on the other side of it. Get on the side of the, oh, club owner, club manager, club booker. So you can see, like, how hard it is. And maybe you'll produce a show and it sucks and it goes away in a few months. Well, that's fine. That's okay. Plus, it's automatic stage time. You get, you host the show.

So do, I would advise every new comic to do that, but don't be desperate. Don't just go to some bar you heard might want to do comedy and be like give me 200 and I'll put on a show. Please, please, please. Bet on yourself a little bit more and become good at and choose a venue that like already has a following.

Maybe you have to do it on an off night because it already has a following. Maybe you find a venue that does music, but they don't start their music till 9 PM on the weekend and you can come in and do a 7 PM show and charge people. Even if it's a little bit and pay well and, you know, try, but you're going to learn how hard it is and it might go and you might fail, it might go away, it might not work out, but then do another one, try again.

And cause you're giving yourself automatic stage time, you're learning the other side of the business. You're learning the reality of how difficult it is, and then you don't become, like, bitter when you don't get booked or don't get responses or don't hear back from whoever or, you know.

And then you gotta initiate. You gotta ask.

All sorts of people are complaining constantly about, I've never done that show, I've never been to that club, I've never worked for them. Usually it's some local complaint of somebody and I go, they don't, they're not thinking about you. That hurts your feelings, that hurts your feelings, but they just, they have, or they're like, they've never reached out, so I don't think they want to do my show.

I got all sorts of people that I think like, oh, they'd be good for these shows I've booked, but I wonder if they want to do it, you know, cause they've never asked. Maybe they don't, maybe they'd prefer to stay in the city and they don't want to come to the suburbs. I don't know. You gotta ask, you gotta work at, you gotta reach out, you gotta request, even from your friends.

Even for your close friends, and even if it's your close friends, do it professionally. Send them an email that's a professional email, even if it's one of your good friends. Don't expect them to give you something, cause there's lots of reasons why they may not. I have a long, long, long, long list of people that want, that I assume want to do my show, and some that I know want to do my show.

Very long list, and they would all be capable, and they'd all do really well, and they'd all enjoy it, and it's in a theater, and they get to perform for 300 plus people, maybe up to 800. That's a pretty great show. I've, you know, I purposely give out a 10 minute spot every show. So that allows me to book some people who are new ish.

Or not even newish, but maybe don't have 30 or maybe I do have 30, but well, I only have 12 spots a year and some of these headliners bring their feature act. So that reduces it to six spots a year, maybe five, maybe four. I don't know how next year is going to look. So anyway, so yes, networking connections.

And I, I learned how to produce standup comedy, produce your own show, learn how to run a show. And I know so little about the metaverse that I don't, but I'm all comedy everywhere. I don't, I don't have any problem with people doing, I did virtual shows during the pandemic, I still do them now. For, cause there's some companies who are like, oh, we don't work, we work virtually now, and so, we're gonna have, we wanna have a holiday party, but alright, let's do it virtually.

People are kinda used to it, and they're fine, they go fine, as long as everybody knows how to do it properly, so. My short answer is I'm all for comedy everywhere. The more of it, the better, I think. Even like in a, you know, and this is tougher, but like Even in your own city, like, Or like if you produce, I produce a show in a suburb of Everett, right?

I don't necessarily want a comedy club in Everett. That would, that would pretty, be a little tough for me. That would stomp on what I'm doing here, a little bit. But, I don't want no comedy in Everett. I don't want to be the only game in town either. Because then there's not a, there's just not a sense that that's even a thing to do that people think about doing.

So having an open mic on Monday nights at Tony V's in Everett and then having some people produce shows at the same exact venue that I produce shows at. I do it once a month and every once in a while people pop in and my buddy Tyler Smith does his dope show there once a year at least. Another buddy does two, three, four shows a year at that same theater.

There's a new improv venue, new ish improv venue down the road. These are all, those are all, that's like all good. And to a, to a point, right, like I said. Now, if somebody, you know, it'd be nice if Everett, Everett Arena used to be called the Everett Event Center, I guess it's called I don't know, Climate Pledge, no, Climate Pledge of Seattle, it's called Did Funko buy it?

No, Funko is the baseball field. Doesn't matter. Angel of the Winds, Angel of the Winds is the sponsor or the owner or whatever. If they started doing theater, like huge comics... I think that'd be good, maybe, but maybe it would be bad for me. I don't know, but the more there there's comedy the better to a point, I guess.

Cory Michaelis: and a show and he was like, heck, yeah, let's see. Yeah. Then he'll be, he'll be the 41st person on my list that wants to do the show. I got 40, you know, 40 locals who want to do it, but yeah, that's, I.

I think you should be reaching out when you go to a city. You should be reaching out to everybody and seeing if there's spots available. And if they say no, there could be a long list of reasons why they say no. And there's a lot of comics that are like, that believe like, well, you just booked the funniest, best person like that.

And it's like, no, that's not nobody. That's not true at all. We book people for all a long list of reasons. So if you're anti diversity and comedy, you you might want to remember that one time you got booked cause you could drive. You had a car. You got booked on a car.

Carole Freeman: Such a good reminder. Yeah.

There are a thousand different reasons.

Cory Michaelis: So don't act like you're, you know, whatever. Oh, that's nice Josh,

Carole Freeman: Josh, Josh, Phoenix based comic saw

Cory's show at the Nile theater in phoenix.

Amazing show.

Cory Michaelis: Yes. So that was a week where I was doing Tucson and Tucson laughs and Tucson is a great club and they pay as well as they can pay and they put you up and you get there on your own, right?

That's kind of how it works. And it's really, really, they pack it out and it's great, great shows. But you get to a certain level sometimes where you go, well, I don't know if I can afford to fly down there to do that. But I added Thursday at the Nile. And luckily I'm at a point where I have enough people that I know already down there.

Add that to people that I found, that I, that follow me, that I don't know, but they follow. Add that to people that don't follow me, don't know who the hell I am. But I did, I ran a Facebook ad and they saw that. And that was just enough people to make. It's so that I probably made almost as much that night as the weekend at laughs.

Now it's, now it's, I routed it, right? I did a little run. And but that's hard work! And I have friends who are very, very good at comedy and have lots and lots and lots of material and put out multiple albums and specials and they're looking to me like, Hey, could you help me figure out how to do this?

And I'm like, I don't know if I know how to do it, but I'm just doing what I, you know, I do what I do. And I overpay for Facebook ads for my monthly show in Everett. I know I do because I'm not an expert at that. I'm just okay at it. And so, but I have to have at least 250 people. So I pay enough ads to get 250 people.

And sometimes I lose money. There was a, he said he'd be reaching out, but then he also had a question, I think, is it still visible?

Carole Freeman: Jason's he just had a comment that he said it's also hard for the local comics to get better at their craft if they live in an area where comedy isn't present.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah, so that's, you know, that's another argument to create your own, your own show. But yes, like, so the, so that's why a club like in Little Rock, Tulsa, Wichita, and I'm not disrespecting those comics. They just don't have as many opportunities. And so there's not as many of them. And they just, yeah. So's adding a good, good.

Carole Freeman: Know your weaknesses. Surfing people, I hope. True. Oh, surfing people. He meant surround yourself with people who have those strengths.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. There, it's . Yeah, I hope that continues to be the case. But I have people with, I know good premier people with good material and strong work ethic, and don't have a business sense, and they, and they're struggling.

Mm-hmm. And so that would make sense based on what you're saying, but then I know some people with good material and good work ethic and they just hit the something hit and so they have zero business sense. They don't know anything about any of it, but they got big and so now they have other people helping with that and

Carole Freeman: Peter's got a great question, but I want to ask you a question first.

About this, you know you know, creating a run, you know, you've got books in place and then trying to add on to that, how, what's that balancing act of that gamble of like, you know, cause I know a lot of bigger venues, they want some money up front and then, you know,

do you have some tips for how to make that all work when you're Trying to create a run for yourself?

Cory Michaelis: Well, yeah, I think just self producing a show is just sort of the, the, maybe the core of that question. Right. So like the way that I worked out was I probably sent an email to 10 venues that I wanted them and they needed to be far enough away from Tucson that I wasn't hurting the club.

I also work a club in Glendale and I want to make sure that I'm not doing another room near there close enough to a time or really probably near there at all, because I headlined that club. So I don't really want to be competing with a club that I headline. And

so I don't work any clubs in Phoenix, Scottsdale or Mesa proper. I work a club in Chandler, I work a club in Gilbert, and I work a club in and Glendale, Stir Crazy. So... So the first thing is just making sure you're not stepping on any toes, you know, and then it'd be best if it was a place that's had comedy previously or done it previously.

So this isn't their first, you know, they kind of have a sense of how to put on a show. But if you if that's you can't find that, then if they've had music before, then they can probably do comedy. And you just got to kind of pitch like, Hey, it looks like this on your calendar. This night is open. Here's what I would do.

I would sell my own tickets. I would promote it myself, but would hope for some help from you. My expectation is I could sell X amount of tickets. Do you do. Is it a rental fee? Is it a, you know, whatever. And usually I've never had anybody ask for money up front, but I'm sure there's people that do.

And then there are people who expect me to want money up front. Probably sometimes I'm doing a corporate thing in September and they're like, so he wants to give you half today. And I was like, Oh, I don't care. Whatever. Sure, I should have said, I probably should have just said yes, but like, nah, I mean, this is a good enough agreement.

We have an email agreement. That's good enough. I'll be there. And don't you worry. I'll give you my whatever. But yeah, we're sometimes we're a little bit in the professional world. There's a little bit more. And in the entertainment world, we're a little more fly by the, you know, ah, yeah, I'll show, you know, we got an email contract.

That's good enough. But now that I'm doing my own show and I'm working with agents, I've had to do official offers on like, you know, with official numbers and they create the contract and I have to sign the contract and we have to like have an official thing and I want it and they want it. We both sides want it.

So yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's relatively recent for me. Maybe the last four years that I've been self producing my own shows where I kind of headline it and sell my own tickets. Yeah, it just depends on what people can afford to do or want to do because you're gonna lose money sometimes.

So are you cool with that?

Carole Freeman: Betting on yourself and hopefully you win.

Cory Michaelis: Do you mind losing money? If not, then yeah, then go for it. Just go anywhere, give away free tickets and just have a heyday and have fun. But, you know, that's not really realistic. I don't think for most people. So

Carole Freeman: Peter Artman is a Seattle based comic.

He says

on the topic of producing, what should I look for in finding a bar venue to host shows?

I think he joined us a little bit later, about 10 or 12 minutes ago. You actually gave some really good tips.

Cory Michaelis: Do you want to maybe yeah, I think the one thing that I didn't say is or so I would find a place that's busy every other night of the week.

If they're desperate for you. Then they're not going to help put any butts in seats and they expect you to do it entirely. And the idea that you can promote let's start with an open mic, that you're going to be able to put butts in seats for an open mic, you know, is, is that's not happening. Or you should assume it's not happening.

I think because it's just, it doesn't make, like, it just doesn't make sense. You know, like, why would people show up in droves on an off night to an open mic? People left the open mic I was at the other night when the comedy started and I apologized. I went up and I was like, I'm so sorry. Are you guys, is that a birthday party going?

You were watching the Mariners game. Those lesbians were having a great conversation and smooching at the bar and they all left because we interrupted it with our bullshit talking about our talking to our therapist. So so I live in a place that's busy other nights of the week. I would I mean, I would never produce an open mic personally.

I don't have any interest in it. But I'd create, I'd try to create some value in the open mic somehow, you know, the open mic I was at was good because it. opened with a, a couple of professional comics and then had the mic afterwards. And so that was kind of a good idea. I thought, but I would never produce an open mic, but if I was going to produce a show, I'd look for a place that was busy other nights a week.

I would charge, I would make sure that there's a, there's a, some sort of. Even if, even if I was doing a casino, I'd make somebody, I'd make people go get like a player's card first and then like they have to invest somehow, even if it's very small. And then I kind of think if, and I pay the comics appropriately, make sure you pay the comics appropriately.

I don't know, I hear clubs go like, well, we can't afford to pay the hosts. I'm like, well, then you can't own it. You don't get to own a comedy club. And I feel the same way about if you're self producing, if it's like, wow, it's not good enough to charge. Well, then, then you don't get to run a show. Find a venue space where there's going to be an audience that's willing to pay.

And if you can't do all that. Then this show is not good enough or it's not, you know, what are we doing here? So and then get the venue to invest, you know, I got, I don't know how I did it, but I got a venue to give me money to do a show at Oh, sorry. Well, give me a portion of the bar and then keep the entire door to do a show at their venue.

I don't remember how I did it, but I just was like, this is what we do. But a lot of people go out to a bar and they're like, Oh, nobody's here. I can help out. I could help put people. And you're like, well, there's nobody there on a Saturday night. That ain't great. You're not there. Plus that venue is going to close down eventually and it's going to be a whole thing.

So yeah, I don't know.

Carole Freeman:

Bet on yourself. Your comedy show is not a rescue mission for a venue.

Cory Michaelis: Oh, yeah. Bet on yourself. I think is the thing. If you think, if you're ambitious enough to say, I am a, I'm produce a real standup comedy show at a venue with strong comics. I'm going to book it. I'm going to put butts in seats.

I'm going to promote it. I'm going to do all stuff. Well, then. Don't go, please give me 300 bar to do this. That's what they give their karaoke host 300 bucks probably. And they don't, they don't put any butts in seats. So, you know, charge and take the money from the tickets and then maybe you'll lose money.

I don't know. I don't know. Then maybe it does, but if you lose money, then it shows not good enough. And maybe you need to move on and do something else somewhere else.

Carole Freeman: Peter has another question. What's something you could,

what's something you wish you could go back and tell yourself as a starting comedian?

Cory Michaelis: I'd just quit. Just don't create habits early on. You know? So first thing in the morning, You know, write for a little bit every morning, first thing. And cause once you get deep into it, it's hard to like...

Alright, I'm gonna start writing every morning now. Just make that, make that the norm. Because, you know, there's an expectation of producing material faster and faster and more and more now than there ever was. And, that's good for comedy because it makes comedy more unique and more interesting and more clever usually, or hopefully but it's hard now, 14 years in.

No manager, no agent, and booking a pretty big theater show once a month to car, there's time in the day. I'm not, I'd be lying if I was like, there's no time in the day. Plenty of time in the day. But, changing your routine to be able to write first thing in the day. Is, is difficult to, to, to adjust to. So if you do it now, it doesn't have to be first thing in the day, I guess, but you're already giving yourself an excuse if you don't make it first thing in the day, right?

You're already going, well, maybe so sure. Whatever works for you, but I would try real hard to first thing every day. Right. For a little bit.

Carole Freeman: Thanks. And this, this is so Kelly says that you were Orion's teacher at some point. So Kelly is actually my cousin's girlfriend and Orion is her daughter. And so this is full circle here. If you're, you're being recognized.

Cory Michaelis: Cool. I don't know how old Orion is, but I suspect I was probably a substitute teacher at that school where they went, but and didn't have them in class, but maybe I had an Orion in class.

I don't recall. That's cool. Yeah, I see former students all the time out and about at shows and on social media and stuff. And so it's kind of fun. My oldest former students, I'm 43. My oldest former students are like 37, 38. So the idea that they're, because I started at 22. So. A lot of them, I have golf buddies that are former students.

I have all sorts of cool people in my life that I consider friends more so than students, but, and then they come to shows, which is fun.

Carole Freeman: Nice. Does anybody else have any questions for Cory Michaelis here?

Anything else, Cory, that you would want

What would you share with comedians about working your way up and getting good at comedy?

Cory Michaelis: Well, yeah, it's still important to be good at it, right? So, like, try hard to do things that are... I mean, we're all so bitchy when it comes to comedy about, like, Oh, that comic does that joke, and so I can't believe that, you know.

We have a lot of, like, rules, right? So you don't have to follow all those rules, per se. But know what's, like, what good comedy is, and strong comedy is, and try and become really good at it. And usually that... Prevails, but I think he said, he said it well, they're just good material and work ethic isn't good enough.

Usually you need good material, work ethic, and a business sense, just business sense. Is gonna have you be a pretty terrible comic, but you might make a few bucks Just work ethic cool, but no business sense. No good material so I think If you want to be if you want to be a good comedian then you get yeah, you got to really work on being having strong material and And then other otherwise you'll quit or like you'll end up just producing comedy.

I think my dumb ass does and And it's fun, and it's great, and it makes a bit of money, but I wish I was a little more prolific in producing material right now, because I, my focus is so much on the show that I run, and and all the logistics of just being a comic, so yeah, you gotta kinda like, what do you want to, you know, decide what you want out of it, and then, And then go from there, I guess, I don't know.

Carole Freeman: That is the challenge. You've got to juggle all the balls. You're basically a comedy entrepreneur. You've got to wear a bunch of different hats. And I think I'm one of the things you're talking about is like producing a show, so you understand that side of it as a comedian, but also. Right. Caution somebody to not go too far in that venue.

Like, do you want to be a producer and then produce a bunch of shows? But if you want to have a comedy career, maybe limit yourself to having one show that you're producing maybe is what I'm taking away from your. Experience.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. Just yet. I yeah. Balancing it a little bit. But again, like that's okay.

We need a good show producers. There's a lot of bad ones. We need good club owners. The best club owners are former comics oftentimes. So yeah. You know, Tom's a great owner at stir crazy cause he's done comedy and, and, and other reasons. But like, that's one of the reasons. And so I don't know if you want to, what do you want?

If you want to be. A really good stand up comedian who only does stand up comedy, and that's it. First of all, good luck. That's going to be really hard. You might need to just be, you might need to just be amazing and so good that no, you know, we call it undeniable, be undeniable. And that's in general, if you're trying to get work, just be, end up being so good that they have to book you.

But like Louis Anderson told me, he's like, so for comedy, like be, be better than they thought you were going to be, be more professional than they thought you were going to be and be nicer than they thought you were going to be. So I would always do those three things if you're attending a show or a club.

And you know, some comics aren't into that. They aren't good at that. They they're unprofessional or they're.

And it's important to be all those three things. If you if you can stomach it, that's who I want to professional and nice to me and then do well when they get to the show, that as a, as a producer of a show,

Carole Freeman: it sounds like good life advice too.

Cory Michaelis: Sure. Don't quit life though.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Don't quit. Hey, Cory, so much good nuggets of tips and wisdom and really great stuff here today, so I really appreciate you being here and, and I will share your.

So people can see your upcoming shows. We'll put that in the show notes as well as the comments and everything like that. Anything else you want to plug? I mean, this is going to live on forever out there, but anything coming up where right now we're June 19th, 2023 is when we're recording this. Anything you want to plug coming up?

Cory Michaelis: Yeah. Just, I have a show and ever. EverettComedy. com. And I have shows that I do myself. If you can spell my name properly, it's Cory Michaelis. And come see a live show.

Carole Freeman: Excellent. We'll put it in the I'll put the comments on Facebook and on YouTube and in the show notes too. So. Awesome. That's great.

Thanks for taking the time in your busy, busy schedule. And it was so great. And Join the Pacific Northwest up there and I'll hopefully see you in person soon.

Cory Michaelis: Yeah, I'll be down in November, if not sooner.

Carole Freeman: Okay, awesome. Great. Hey, thank you everyone for listening, for joining the show and you know, put in the comments, who do you want me to interview next?

We've got some great people lined up and this is really fun. So thanks for being here, Cory. Thank you everyone else for watching. We'll see you next time. Bye.

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